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Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

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New internal tech to power vast open-world RPGs ahead of expected Witcher 3 reveal

The Witcher developer CD Projekt Red has revealed its 'next-generation-ready' tech, dubbed RedEngine 3.... read more

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Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby JPTiger » 02 Feb 2013, 06:22

If RedEngine 2 looks as good as it does, then what can RedEngine 3 to do to improve? Improve on the technical aspects of weaving the game together and not so much the shinies?
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby Brenton » 02 Feb 2013, 08:22

Next gen consoles won't be able to support that engine. Only high end PCs in 2015 onwards. Seems pretty futuristic. Seamless loading times are still a long way off and games like the Witcher 2 which were not open world games were heavy handed on the specifications so an open world with better graphics then witcher 2 and seamless loading times seems like a dream. Maybe in 2018. This implies that this RedEngine 3 is still a long ways off.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby darry » 02 Feb 2013, 10:13

Brenton wrote:Next gen consoles won't be able to support that engine. Only high end PCs in 2015 onwards. Seems pretty futuristic. Seamless loading times are still a long way off and games like the Witcher 2 which were not open world games were heavy handed on the specifications so an open world with better graphics then witcher 2 and seamless loading times seems like a dream. Maybe in 2018. This implies that this RedEngine 3 is still a long ways off.


So their new engine that is powering one already announced title (and presumably another announced in the next couple of weeks) is still five years away? Riiiiiiiight. And Red Engine 2 ran pretty damn well on the 360, so I'd say it was pretty safe to assume the next one will have been built with the next generation of consoles in mind, even if it is optimised for PC.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby Brenton » 02 Feb 2013, 10:29

darry wrote:So their new engine that is powering one already announced title (and presumably another announced in the next couple of weeks) is still five years away? Riiiiiiiight. And Red Engine 2 ran pretty damn well on the 360, so I'd say it was pretty safe to assume the next one will have been built with the next generation of consoles in mind, even if it is optimised for PC.


Consoles won't be able to support seamless loading times. Plus long loading times, awful AA and low graphics settings isn't that good at all. GTX 680s still have trouble playing The Witcher 2 on ultra with ubersampling on.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby kirankara » 02 Feb 2013, 10:36

darry wrote:
Brenton wrote:Next gen consoles won't be able to support that engine. Only high end PCs in 2015 onwards. Seems pretty futuristic. Seamless loading times are still a long way off and games like the Witcher 2 which were not open world games were heavy handed on the specifications so an open world with better graphics then witcher 2 and seamless loading times seems like a dream. Maybe in 2018. This implies that this RedEngine 3 is still a long ways off.


So their new engine that is powering one already announced title (and presumably another announced in the next couple of weeks) is still five years away? Riiiiiiiight. And Red Engine 2 ran pretty damn well on the 360, so I'd say it was pretty safe to assume the next one will have been built with the next generation of consoles in mind, even if it is optimised for PC.


Witcher 2 wasn't well optimised on PC tbh. It ran dx9, and it wasn't even that punishing hardware wise, unless you pointlessly tried to enable ubersampling, which would destroy every graphics card you could throw at it. If you had a sandy bridge Intel CPU and mid end GPU 60fps wasn't hard to come by.

This engine will run dx11 , so tessellation etc, but good news for console and PC's is these things will be implemented properly in new gen, meaning they will be optimised and run efficiently, as consoles will require this, meaning PC's will get boost too.

Previously, games like crysis 2 ran tessellation, but very inefficiently, they were adding it to huge parts of world, which couldn't even be seen, meaning hardware resources were being wasted.

Think anyone expecting new consoles to match high end PC's at running these next gen engines will be left crying in their beer, but they will run them, just not with full bells and whistles, and probably not at same frame rate
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby kirankara » 02 Feb 2013, 10:40

Brenton wrote:
darry wrote:So their new engine that is powering one already announced title (and presumably another announced in the next couple of weeks) is still five years away? Riiiiiiiight. And Red Engine 2 ran pretty damn well on the 360, so I'd say it was pretty safe to assume the next one will have been built with the next generation of consoles in mind, even if it is optimised for PC.


Consoles won't be able to support seamless loading times. Plus long loading times, awful AA and low graphics settings isn't that good at all. GTX 680s still have trouble playing The Witcher 2 on ultra with ubersampling on.


Tbf ubersampling is a joke, I know someone who has a 690, and isn't guaranteed 60fps, and that's 2 x 680's effectively.

It takes three higher resolution images and down scales them from my understanding of ubersampling, no wonder it destroys graphics cards.

Tbh, I don't even like the effect much, it blurs images a bit too much for my liking
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby Chris_Shanahan87 » 02 Feb 2013, 13:17

Brenton wrote:Next gen consoles won't be able to support that engine. Only high end PCs in 2015 onwards. Seems pretty futuristic. Seamless loading times are still a long way off and games like the Witcher 2 which were not open world games were heavy handed on the specifications so an open world with better graphics then witcher 2 and seamless loading times seems like a dream. Maybe in 2018. This implies that this RedEngine 3 is still a long ways off.


riiiiiiight.... so what do you suppose they mean by "next-gen ready" ?
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby micka » 02 Feb 2013, 13:37

Looks a bit like Skyrim! Just remembered I got The Witcher 2 on a Steam sale a while back and have just finished Far Cry 3 so now could be the perfect time to start it.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby JPTiger » 02 Feb 2013, 17:43

kirankara wrote:Witcher 2 wasn't well optimised on PC tbh. It ran dx9, and it wasn't even that punishing hardware wise, unless you pointlessly tried to enable ubersampling, which would destroy every graphics card you could throw at it. If you had a sandy bridge Intel CPU and mid end GPU 60fps wasn't hard to come by.

This engine will run dx11 , so tessellation etc, but good news for console and PC's is these things will be implemented properly in new gen, meaning they will be optimised and run efficiently, as consoles will require this, meaning PC's will get boost too.

Previously, games like crysis 2 ran tessellation, but very inefficiently, they were adding it to huge parts of world, which couldn't even be seen, meaning hardware resources were being wasted.

Think anyone expecting new consoles to match high end PC's at running these next gen engines will be left crying in their beer, but they will run them, just not with full bells and whistles, and probably not at same frame rate

Tbf, the fact that the game looked as good as it did without being overly punishing means that it is well optimised. And Ubersampling is overkill, especially when you understand what it does. Also, it sounds like to you, a game that is only DX9 is almost not worth playing, and that you are a graphics fanboy. I'll tell you this. DX11 tessellation, while being improved on all the time, is a performance killer when it is used all over the place.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby JPTiger » 02 Feb 2013, 17:49

Brenton wrote:
darry wrote:So their new engine that is powering one already announced title (and presumably another announced in the next couple of weeks) is still five years away? Riiiiiiiight. And Red Engine 2 ran pretty damn well on the 360, so I'd say it was pretty safe to assume the next one will have been built with the next generation of consoles in mind, even if it is optimised for PC.

Consoles won't be able to support seamless loading times. Plus long loading times, awful AA and low graphics settings isn't that good at all. GTX 680s still have trouble playing The Witcher 2 on ultra with ubersampling on.

Excuse me? The next gen with faster CPUs and more cache (possibly L3 cache), a lot more RAM and faster too, faster and more capable GPUs, the ability to program closer to the hardware, and the fact that each console only has to worry about one hardware set, instead of possibly thousands to accommodate on PC, and you still say that the loading will be terrible, and the graphics will be bad? And you mustn't understand what ubersampling does if you're expecting it to have next to no performance hit at all. Just go and brush up on your facts. Please.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby stealth » 02 Feb 2013, 19:30

its not nearly that impressive
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby Jingee » 02 Feb 2013, 20:50

Honestly, I just hope it's a well optimized RedEngine 2; My OC'd GTX 670 chugged playing Witcher 2 with everything turned to max.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby Welsh Jester » 02 Feb 2013, 21:11

Seems people don't realize the fact that running games on Ultra is largely a waste of resources and literally barely makes a difference from High settings. I learned that from Doom 3, and even that dipped to low 20fps on my shiny new 6800 ultra in 2004 at times. But back then we had some bad resource hoggers as well.

Since fixed console hardware means better optimized games, they will be able to run games more efficiently than equivalent PC hardware. I'm still good with my 5870 as it plays what i want 60+fps, and i likely won't upgrade until Doom 4 and Half Life 3 are announced which shouldn't be much longer now.
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby kirankara » 02 Feb 2013, 22:17

JPTiger wrote:
kirankara wrote:Witcher 2 wasn't well optimised on PC tbh. It ran dx9, and it wasn't even that punishing hardware wise, unless you pointlessly tried to enable ubersampling, which would destroy every graphics card you could throw at it. If you had a sandy bridge Intel CPU and mid end GPU 60fps wasn't hard to come by.

This engine will run dx11 , so tessellation etc, but good news for console and PC's is these things will be implemented properly in new gen, meaning they will be optimised and run efficiently, as consoles will require this, meaning PC's will get boost too.

Previously, games like crysis 2 ran tessellation, but very inefficiently, they were adding it to huge parts of world, which couldn't even be seen, meaning hardware resources were being wasted.

Think anyone expecting new consoles to match high end PC's at running these next gen engines will be left crying in their beer, but they will run them, just not with full bells and whistles, and probably not at same frame rate

Tbf, the fact that the game looked as good as it did without being overly punishing means that it is well optimised. And Ubersampling is overkill, especially when you understand what it does. Also, it sounds like to you, a game that is only DX9 is almost not worth playing, and that you are a graphics fanboy. I'll tell you this. DX11 tessellation, while being improved on all the time, is a performance killer when it is used all over the place.


I don't think you really know what you're talking about tbh. It wasn't that well optimised, and you only have to look at the CPU scaling to see this. There's a huge disparity between various CPU's even quad cores, whereas other games like bf3 and farcry 3 perform almost identically on decent quad core CPU's.
Yes, it still looked very good, but that's artistic design, not optimization, there's a difference.
DX 11 is a performance killer, an partly that's because its currently overlaid on dx9 games, and not optimised properly.

As for your comment about being a graphics fanboy, hell yes I am, that's why I own a good PC, but I can still appreciate fantastic artistic design, and do so more than technical design.

That's not to say that I can't appreciate technically amazing software either, and I bought hardware to make most of that too, and you must to a degree, otherwise you'd still be playing on a SNES.

Furthermore, you've taken my comment out of all context, as my comment served to highlight that a next generation engine for witcher, isn't necessarily beyond next generation consoles, even if they aren't as powerful as high end PC's, as their previous engine was dx9, and you as long as you had decent rig, you could get good results, if you didn't run ubersampling. That's not to say it still want punishing though. You needed a high end card and CPU to get 60+ fps constantly at max settings.

Their engine will almost certainly concentrate on dx11 and various other features found in new unreal engine etc etc, which next generation consoles will definitely run, even if not at high end PC settings.

PS take it you won't be buying next generation console eh???
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Re: Witcher dev reveals next-gen 'RedEngine 3'

Postby FlacidDonkeyGuy » 03 Feb 2013, 00:51

I think what Brenton is trying to say is the next generation of consoles will have HDD, now hopefully both will maybe have some form of SSD cash drive if we are lucky. Given PC's on the higher end in 2015 will be SATA Express SSD's, & you can ultimately only load as fast as what you are pulling the data from, I think that (or hope) is what he is trying to get at. That and the CPU's 8 core @ 1.6ghz if you add the extra four cores (that I suspect wont be full cores but 8 integer schedulers) that totals to a 3.2ghz "quad core" Bulldozer. Still that's a heck of a lot better than what is currently available in consoles.

As for low AA if the PS4 has 3.5 usable GDR most of that will be needed for running at "super HD", then again that point is moot, as at that resolution AA will be less of an issue. From what I gather the PS4 is a system on a single chip, much like the original PlayStation. So I am hoping that some of the free space will have a CELL, emotion engine & PS1chipset embedded in the same piece of silicon.

Out of the two consoles I will be picking up a PS4 on launch, on the condition there is a good Keyboard & Mouse converter out or coming out for it. I will still spend most of my gaming time on my PC however, Dirty Bomb is just too good, and Elder scrolls online is going to induce beard growth. :D

On a side note loss leading only happens in supermarkets.
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