to join the CVG community. Not a member yet? Join now!
CVG

DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that innovat

Your comments on our articles.

General manager calls Battlefield 1942 a "textbook example of over-scoping"

Karl Magnus Troedsson, general manager of Battlefield studio DICE, has said he thinks innovation "is a bit of a buzzword" and that it doesn't always have to entail radical changes.... read more

Moderators : CVG Staff, CVG Moderators

DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that innovat

Postby FishyGinger » 13 Aug 2012, 13:13

I'm very surprised he would use a devastating affliction such as this to make a point about games and consumers.

An old ex had sequelitis and in her worst fevered periods would make 3, sometimes 4 sequined dresses a day, forgetting to eat, sleep, frolick or do anything normal. The destruction it caused was massive.
Some say he's half man, half fish. Others say its more of a 70/30 split. Whatever the percentage, he's one fishy bastard.
User avatar
FishyGinger 69
 
Posts: 4703
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 11:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby WHERESMYMONKEY » 13 Aug 2012, 13:37

I'm not adverse to sequels, if they propel things forward. What People don't like is the same shite churned out every year with a bit of a reskin and a couple extra features.

Its a feckin waste of time and effort if you think about it logically. these incremental improvements could be added onto an exisitng game via dlc and patches. Which are cheaper to produce than a whole new game and it keeps the community around the game united and happy.

Look at TF2. it was released years ag and is vastly different and in many ways superior to how it was originally all through adding maps and mods and giving the existing community news things to do with it.

having a new sequel every year just splits up your user base. makes people weary of how long each game will be supported for and cost the devs/publishers much more money.
Comedy. gaming. Lemmings? You do the math www.laserlemming.com
User avatar
WHERESMYMONKEY 66
 
Posts: 8961
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 13:59
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby BenThomasFoster » 13 Aug 2012, 13:41

Why am I not surprised to hear that from a EA developer. EA's guys have been wispering into his ear, giving him wods of money to stay loyal. I feel very sorry for them, it wasn't meat to be this way, they were meant to keep doing their own thing and simplky just use EA's money as a solid foundation and now their artistic integrity has been compramised, they're no longer making dice games, they're just doing what they're told. "hey make a new engine dice so we can pass it around EA, hey dice can you only ever make battlefield and DLC, hey dice please slave away and help make our other games.
- I troll without realising it
- Don't listen to a word I say
User avatar
BenThomasFoster 49
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 01:50
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby EvilWaterman » 13 Aug 2012, 14:20

FishyGinger wrote:I'm very surprised he would use a devastating affliction such as this to make a point about games and consumers.

An old ex had sequelitis and in her worst fevered periods would make 3, sometimes 4 sequined dresses a day, forgetting to eat, sleep, frolick or do anything normal. The destruction it caused was massive.



Ha Ha. Very good. :lol:
PSN: EvilWaterman
www.playstationcrowd.com
www.oldnrubbish.co.uk
Chuck Norris Approved
User avatar
EvilWaterman 53
 
Posts: 1414
Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 15:00
Location: United Kingdom
PSN ID: EvilWaterman

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby bamozzy » 13 Aug 2012, 14:24

WHERESMYMONKEY wrote:I'm not adverse to sequels, if they propel things forward. What People don't like is the same shite churned out every year with a bit of a reskin and a couple extra features.


It seems that Football games like Fifa and PES do very well following this pattern.... Espeecially as a yearly patch could update all the player stats etc...

From my perspective a lot of sequels may follow a similar pattern but offer updated features and story lines too (in most cases) The ones that don't offer that much in the way of differences from previous games are the sport based games but they continue to sell very well so publishers keep churning them out. The only time that this will change is IF gamers stop buying those games. The main difference between BF2 and BF3 is the new Frostbite 2.0 engine but is it radically different in terms of game play mechanics - not really. But I enjoy those type of games so will buy updated versions. Maybe BF4 won't be that radically different from BF3 as no doubt it will also be on the Frostbite 2.0 engine but it will offer a new campaign to play - with any luck they will have learnt from their mistakes with BF3's campaign and offer a better experience. If any thing the MP won't change much at all as they don't have perks or kill streaks and the effects of these have on the game (I am not saying that is a bad thing) so can't see how they can radically change the MP and its not like the majority of BF3 players would want it to change that much - a few tweaks here and there, new maps and we will probably be happy.

While I agree that in some cases we do NOT want the same game churned out year after year, a lot of people also don't want to much to change. You can see this in a lot of discussions about game franchises - take Halo 4 for example - A lot of people are apprehensive about the MP because they are trying to introduce some new aspects - they don't want it to change that much from other Halo games.

It seems that in some cases the developers are damned if they don't change things and damned if they do.

I must say I am apprehensive about Bioshock Infinite as it is moving away from rapture and it certainly doesn't look as if it will recreate that claustrophobic and dark atmosphere of its previous games. There has also been a lot of criticism of the Resident Evil Series - especially about RE5 as it changed from what the previous RE games offered. Would it it have got as much criticism if it was like the previous games - just with a bit of polish and a few tweaks here and there? Probably not as much as it has had from changing. Also look at all the discussion about Dead Space 3 too.
As Confucius said 'Man who keeps hands in pockets feels Cocky all day'... ;-)

Image

Image
User avatar
bamozzy 66
 
Posts: 1396
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 13:39
Location: United Kingdom
Xbox Live: bamozzy
PSN ID: TaimeDowne

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby toaplan » 13 Aug 2012, 15:19

bamozzy wrote:
It seems that in some cases the developers are damned if they don't change things and damned if they do.

I must say I am apprehensive about Bioshock Infinite as it is moving away from rapture and it certainly doesn't look as if it will recreate that claustrophobic and dark atmosphere of its previous games.


"We want band X's next record to be really innovative and new, but still essentially be a band X record at heart..."

Bioshock Infinite's setting looks fantastic! That and the new sidekick are plenty enough for the sequel. I just hope they'd finish the game without further delays.

The impressive graphical upgrade from BFBC2 to BF3 on PC, also easily justified making the sequel.
User avatar
toaplan 73
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: 12 Jun 2011, 20:04
Location: Finland

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby plightstar » 13 Aug 2012, 15:21

Can't believe his comment about 1942. It still is the best in the series, the scope of it, is what made it great. It wasn't so big like Joint Operations which failed, because there were no focus points on the maps. Unlike 1942 which had the right sized maps, with choke points at certain points. Whilst I did enjoy BF3, I barely play it now and won't be getting 4. May pick up Bad Company 3 some day, if they don't turn the SP into the disaster that was BF3's single player.
User avatar
plightstar 34
 
Posts: 224
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 15:29
Location: United Kingdom
Xbox Live: PLIGHTSTAR1
Steam: plightstar

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby Two Pennys Worth » 13 Aug 2012, 15:39

bamozzy wrote:
WHERESMYMONKEY wrote:I'm not adverse to sequels, if they propel things forward. What People don't like is the same shite churned out every year with a bit of a reskin and a couple extra features.


It seems that Football games like Fifa and PES do very well following this pattern.... Espeecially as a yearly patch could update all the player stats etc...

From my perspective a lot of sequels may follow a similar pattern but offer updated features and story lines too (in most cases) The ones that don't offer that much in the way of differences from previous games are the sport based games but they continue to sell very well so publishers keep churning them out. The only time that this will change is IF gamers stop buying those games. The main difference between BF2 and BF3 is the new Frostbite 2.0 engine but is it radically different in terms of game play mechanics - not really. But I enjoy those type of games so will buy updated versions. Maybe BF4 won't be that radically different from BF3 as no doubt it will also be on the Frostbite 2.0 engine but it will offer a new campaign to play - with any luck they will have learnt from their mistakes with BF3's campaign and offer a better experience. If any thing the MP won't change much at all as they don't have perks or kill streaks and the effects of these have on the game (I am not saying that is a bad thing) so can't see how they can radically change the MP and its not like the majority of BF3 players would want it to change that much - a few tweaks here and there, new maps and we will probably be happy.

While I agree that in some cases we do NOT want the same game churned out year after year, a lot of people also don't want to much to change. You can see this in a lot of discussions about game franchises - take Halo 4 for example - A lot of people are apprehensive about the MP because they are trying to introduce some new aspects - they don't want it to change that much from other Halo games.

It seems that in some cases the developers are damned if they don't change things and damned if they do.

I must say I am apprehensive about Bioshock Infinite as it is moving away from rapture and it certainly doesn't look as if it will recreate that claustrophobic and dark atmosphere of its previous games. There has also been a lot of criticism of the Resident Evil Series - especially about RE5 as it changed from what the previous RE games offered. Would it it have got as much criticism if it was like the previous games - just with a bit of polish and a few tweaks here and there? Probably not as much as it has had from changing. Also look at all the discussion about Dead Space 3 too.


Good point, i will probably buy bf4 but am worried that it could change too much from bf3,if people enjoyed the previous game enough they will buy the sequel because they know what they can probably expect from it. I think gamer's shouldn't expect games in a franchise to be vastly different from the previous installment, surely that is the whole point of a franchise. I think the main problem this gen is too many developers tried to jump on the CoD/BF bandwagon instead of pioneering in other genres. Instead of all the hate against DICE, Infinity Ward and Treyarch, gamer's should be moaning at the developers who have not exploited the gaps there must surely be in the market.
Two Pennys Worth 56
 
Posts: 771
Joined: 21 Aug 2011, 19:54

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby Agent75 » 13 Aug 2012, 15:50

I hope that one day, there is a cure for Sequelitis. I can't see it being free on the NHS, so the likes of EA, Activision, Konami and CAPCOM (to name a few), will have to spend millions on treatment.
Agent75 48
 
Posts: 1568
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby KK-Headcharge78 » 13 Aug 2012, 15:53

Good points from Two Pennys and Bamozzy. I agree with the speaker here, 'innovation' has become the buzz word for detractors of franchises. Many times I have seen scorn squared directly at the big sequel franchises with people screaming 'innovation, won't somebody please think of the innovation', but very rarely have I seen any actual ideas/examples or otherwise of what it would actually mean. Let's not forget the Mario, FIFA, Sonic, Zelda, Street Fighter (to name a few) for many years offered a 'little bit here, little bit there' changes. Sequels and franchises are the bread and butter of the industry, continual innovation will not ever exist in gaming and after 30 odd years people should realise that. It's a balance and with the genre expanse there is now surely there is something for all?

The self righteous consumer should not always mistake his need for something new vs something he is simply finished with.
Image

Image
User avatar
KK-Headcharge78 62
 
Posts: 5330
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 13:47
Location: United Kingdom
Xbox Live: Bison VS Mario
PSN ID: slypuss7881

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby TheLastDodo » 13 Aug 2012, 16:07

bamozzy wrote:It seems that Football games like Fifa and PES do very well following this pattern.... Espeecially as a yearly patch could update all the player stats etc...


No offense bamozzy but that is pure and simply lazy.

I can't speak for PES as I've only ever played demos but FIFA has "innovated" way more than the likes of CoD have over this entire generation.

They've continually improved the AI, the animations, the physics, the online side.

FIFA tends to improve every year, sometimes through minor tweaks that subtly improve the gameplay or sometimes they are major additions like 360 movement.

There are far worse offenders out there.
Last edited by TheLastDodo on 13 Aug 2012, 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
TheLastDodo 77
 
Posts: 15839
Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 15:26

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby toaplan » 13 Aug 2012, 16:33

^^ Sometimes the "little" changes and innovations can be really significant. For example, SF3's parry mechanic, which was discussed in a recent Edge feature that re-examined controversial reviews in the magazine's past. (quote follows below)

Total War is an example of a series that has managed to stay fresh by varying the setting, which has also had implications for the gameplay, not just graphics. God of War is a series that could benefit from a change of setting.

Then there are franchises that have been put on hold for so long that simply a graphical upgrade and a new story would suffice. Star Fox, Pilotwings, ShenMue etc...

"Reviewed in E88, September 2000

What we said: "Lamentably, even the most devout aficionado would agree that little has changed between chapters, save minor tweaks to the fighting system…. Street Fighter III 3rd Strike is Street Fighter by any other name, and despite its self-defined constraints, this alone will be the measure of its worth." [6]

What we got wrong: Dismissed the parry mechanic as a "minor tweak". At the Evolution tournament in 2004, Daigo Umehara parried all 19 hits of Justin Wong's Chun Li Super Art when a single blocked hit would have killed him. The video attracted millions of views and, arguably, sparked the resurgence of the fighting genre.

What we got right: The review needs to be placed in the appropriate context: Third Strike came along at the fag-end of the fighting genre's 1990s popularity, when press and players alike had tired of Capcom's over-iteration of its flagship franchise. It's unrealistic to expect a single player to truly assess the future significance of a single mechanic, too - and the game was four years old when Umehara made his stunning comeback and showed the parry to the world."
Last edited by toaplan on 13 Aug 2012, 16:45, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
toaplan 73
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: 12 Jun 2011, 20:04
Location: Finland

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby nb_nmare2 » 13 Aug 2012, 16:36

BenThomasFoster wrote:wods... compramised...


You got your o and your a the wrong way around!
nb_nmare2 58
 
Posts: 1818
Joined: 01 Aug 2003, 12:17
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby Chris_Shanahan87 » 13 Aug 2012, 17:24

To an extent I think gamers just need to grow up.

If EA (or any other publisher) have a hit on their hands, then of course their priority will be make more of it. It's just supply and demand. A new IP carries much more risk, and EA's primary function is to please shareholders who will understandably be much more keen to see them expand upon a proven concept.

Once that big franchise it established, innovation becomes a lot more tricky. They have to change things to keep people interested and bring in new players, but not so much as to risk alienating the existing user base.
Chris_Shanahan87 47
 
Posts: 476
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DICE: 'Sequelitis' complainers don't understand that inn

Postby TallPaul1878 » 13 Aug 2012, 19:07

DICE: Game devs don't understand and don't care about their consumer base.

GIVE ME MOAR MONIES!!!!

Sorry but this guy is talking guff. He's just defending his publishing house, EA, and their policy of milking that cash cow til it bleeds to death. Now I'm not against sequels. In fact I'm absolutely stoked for Borderlands 2. But the reason for this is because they made a great first game and have left quite a reasonable gap whilst they finish the next one.

What riles us gamers isn't that they are making sequels, it's that they do it year after year after year and we see very little improvement. Battlefield is a great game but really the next Battlefield belongs on the next gen consoles and I'm pretty sure many console players will be happy to wait now.
TallPaul1878 18
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 17 Feb 2011, 22:38


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Elo Rift, Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests

The forum teamDelete all forum cookiesAll times are UTC [ DST ]