Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from top st

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"Our job is to surprise people," says Turn 10's Dan Greenawalt

In part one of our Forza 4 video interview, game director Dan Greenawalt told us why holding on to current-gen technology has enabled leaps in graphical performance rather than inhibited it.... read more

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Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from top st

Postby c3dpo » 27 Sep 2011, 11:45

Good point that Dev!

I for one have been screaming for developers to really push the Kinect.

Yeah I love DC and Child of Eden, sports etc.

however, where is the epic Voice recognition I read about when that localization tester leaked that it supported sooooo many phrases in multple languages!!

Heck, I dont care if I read off the screen and they then talk back, it's a start to pave the way for full on player - NPC interaction through voice! More immersion FTW!
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Re: Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from to

Postby TheCrimsonFenix » 27 Sep 2011, 12:06

Another month, another developer states the obvious.

People have been demanding developers to come up with something that makes the Kinect worthwhile since it was first shown but a lot of them including myself are people who can see what's happening with it. It never was going to be treated the same way as a game platform simply because it is different and doesn't have the same standing as the 360 itself. With gaming today being where it is, you can't really be shocked with the direction devs are taking with Kinect. Making something more worthwhile than a meaningless mainstream cash in on tech which is little more than a glorified motion camera detector with voice recog? Possible but not a lot will bother trying.

It never was going to reach the heights that a "normal" video game can provide and that's mainly down to the gadget itself. Limitations which a controller doesn't have is obviously something a lot of developers are not seeing right now. You can't just stick Kinect support into your game that has done perfectly fine without it for years just for the sake of it. You have to work with what the thing can do rather than just shoehorn it's main feature into every game. Even when a developer sees that the former is the best way, there's only so much they can do with this thing. It's a catch 22 situation as far as "innovation" is concerned.
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Re: Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from to

Postby LordVonPS3 » 27 Sep 2011, 16:58

"He asks gamers to be patient and understand that Microsoft's motion controller is still in its infancy. But at the same time Greenawalt urges us to demand "surprises" from the top studios when it comes to the little nodding camera."

Dan Greenawalt = bogus.

Developers in the industry will decide whether Kinect is worth their time and support - as with any other piece of hardware. Adding Kinect support for games just for the sake of it will soak up a lot of R&D + engineering time, won't make gamers any happier and won't increase sales.

If Microsoft wants developers to support Kinect.....
1.) Carrot. Give developers an incentive to add Kinect support.
2.) Stick. Add a mandate in the T&Cs that requires Kinect support be added in every game.

Kinect's install base hardly matches the 360's. Some 360 owners are already calling for the next XBox to arrive. I don't see that it's worth any developer's time developing for Kinect now when any REASONABLY GOOD game would sell just as well without Kinect support. The ball is very much still in Microsoft's court.
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Re: Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from to

Postby lonewolf2002 » 28 Sep 2011, 00:32

LordVonPS3 wrote:"He asks gamers to be patient and understand that Microsoft's motion controller is still in its infancy. But at the same time Greenawalt urges us to demand "surprises" from the top studios when it comes to the little nodding camera."

Dan Greenawalt = bogus.

Developers in the industry will decide whether Kinect is worth their time and support - as with any other piece of hardware. Adding Kinect support for games just for the sake of it will soak up a lot of R&D + engineering time, won't make gamers any happier and won't increase sales.

If Microsoft wants developers to support Kinect.....
1.) Carrot. Give developers an incentive to add Kinect support.
2.) Stick. Add a mandate in the T&Cs that requires Kinect support be added in every game.

Kinect's install base hardly matches the 360's. Some 360 owners are already calling for the next XBox to arrive. I don't see that it's worth any developer's time developing for Kinect now when any REASONABLY GOOD game would sell just as well without Kinect support . The ball is very much still in Microsoft's court.



Unless of course Kinect is in some way built into the next X-Box (can't see it myself but hey) as is rumoured. 8)
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Re: Forza 4: 'Gamers should demand Kinect innovation from to

Postby LordVonPS3 » 28 Sep 2011, 01:44

lonewolf2002 wrote:Unless of course Kinect is in some way built into the next X-Box (can't see it myself but hey) as is rumoured. 8)

I think it's safe to assume that even if Kinect is given away with the next XBox, Microsoft will still provide a controller with buttons. It is the most direct and effectively accurate means of control.

In my opinion, motion control is limited in its use...

1.) Pointer / light-gun games. We've had these for years (Duck Hunt / NES, Bronx Street Cop / ZX Spectrum, Virtua Cop / Saturn, Time Crisis / PS1, Trauma Centre / Wii, etc).

2.) Fitness / dancing games. We've had these for years as well (Dance Dance Revolution / PS2, Wii Fit / Wii, Zumba Fitness / PS3, etc).

3.) As an alternate means of control for people who cannot use a modern-day handheld controller. Absolutely fantastic for people with disabilities and / or for people who just don't want to spend the time getting used to controllers.


In 2 decades, we've had a very acceptable number of dance / light-gun / fitness / pointer style games for consoles. There's not really been a demand for more, it's always been a niche (even arguably with the Wii - in spite of the console's success). This makes me think there isn't really any need for motion control with the exception of points 1 to 3 above. If you're not developing a game to fit into 1 or 2, how is it really worth the time implementing motion control into your game? Isn't it fair to say that (as shown with the Wii) if it were possible to really innovate in this space, 3rd parties would already be doing so with a lot of success?

As for point 3, it's my opinion that console manufacturers should implement and recognize a redefinable standard alternative gesture system which may be used as an alternative to pressing buttons / sticks on a controller, etc. Providing the disabled / non-core market with motion based access to video games is a worthwhile cause that I don't think games developers should be responsible for.
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