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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby The_Jaster » 26 Jun 2011, 19:21

great article.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby nick_gc » 27 Jun 2011, 10:16

It's an article full of excellent points by by God it was hard to read.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby boskersrevenge » 27 Jun 2011, 10:43

That was a very interesting read and it does open up the scope, somewhat.

The potential has to be realised though but I must admit it was a bit fanboyish - too much emphasis on how it could damage MS and Sony.

I want a market whereby everyone is doing well, rather than being damaged.

Remember, Nintendo is the sort of company that dictates rather than listens and even now, when they seem more progressive than ever, still operate under a lot of secrecy and I also read this today: http://kotaku.com/5815447/how-badly-do- ... de-for-wii

While Sony and MS are very open with regard to games in development and announcements, Nintendo still choke such a simple little thing for reasons no-one has ever successfully explained.

I couldn't see their dominance as a good thing.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby cult » 27 Jun 2011, 12:52

ste hicky wrote:the one thing i like above all else is watching every major 3rd party on earth flock to nintendo here.
from valve to square to take 2 to ea to acti.
making money off the wii brand is too much to resist for publishers this time, it seems.


This time?

Are you saying there was no money in making games for the wii for 3rd party developers?

The problem with the original wii is and was that to play decent upto date games you had to buy a second console.
Some fanboys are so fanny (is that the right word) that they wont purchase anything other than Nintendo and have missed out on a generation of 3rd party games that now are lauded as the second coming of christ as they are announced for the wiiu.

Surely as a gamer you would play the games on whatever system it required?
It must be cheaper to buy one of the competitions machines and play those multiformat exclusives for five years rather than go without and buy a wiiu and play catch up at a premium?

I hope the xbox720 rumour is true and MS goes toe to toe with Ninty in a proper fight, consumer always wins right?
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby Izo » 27 Jun 2011, 19:43

Whose going to be playing catch up though? Wii U will get future multiplatform games not old ports from years ago I think people using this argument don't fully understand the situation or never witnessed the SNES, the problem Sony and MS face is that in a first party battle they're simply fighting a losing battle, whether someone likes Nintendo's library or not they make top notch games which generate insane commercial success. A Nintendo console with comparable or equal support is a problem to deal because of this as if pulled off right a lot of people will only have Wii U like a lot of people only had Snes and NES.

The majority of the PS3 and 360 userbase are drawn to the third party offering with COD, GTA etc... which is why they're the top selling games on the platforms, the Wii userbase on the other hand is made mainly from a new market who are drawn mainly to Nintendo so the Wii U is placed between these two markets. This is where the U's timing comes in as it gives it time to transition, it won't just snatch the whole userbase away but be phased in with this group so when the PS4 and Xbox 3 arrive the's already a console on the market doing multiplatform's which will hit any third party advantage Sony and MS had before, power isn't a problem as the 360 is the basic standard for multiplatforms even with the PS3 out so U will become the same assuming Sony and MS go for power which again raises the price.

I imagine that will be the point the heavy sellers like NSMB, MK and all start surfacing to push the console commercially.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby cult » 27 Jun 2011, 23:53

The wiiu is playing catch up with 3rd party support, processing power, graphics, dvd/blu-ray storage capacity, online, adoptees and choice.
The wii user base is casual and the wiiu is aimed at the core gamer, two different demographics, don’t expect those casuals who said no to the current HD generation to suddenly say yes to a Nintendo version of it.
The wiiu is a current generation console in a 5 year old market that offers little more than what is already available. Other than Nintendo exclusives it will share a common catalogue of future games and given a choice where none existed before Nintendo 1st party will suffer in sales, or is it everybody will buy everything?
In reality ‘core’ wii owning gamers would have bought an additional console in the last 5 years for the 3rd party support of MS and Sony, so when wiiu does arrive they will already have the facility for multiplatform without the need for a new console.
To say Microsoft and Sony are fighting a losing battle with exclusives is ridiculous, they have theirs and Nintendo has their own, in what way has anyone lost out to Nintendo?
I don’t believe consumers are drawn to MS or Sony because of 3rd party only; it’s in addition to those consoles exclusives. Some people only have one or the other machine and unlike wii users and an awful lot of them are progressive gamers who want to move with the times and go next gen. The wiiu just isn’t that, as for transition, you mean it’s neither here current gen or there next gen?
Expect gamecube lifetime sales not ps2 and expect to come last behind Apple
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby The_Jaster » 28 Jun 2011, 00:09

wii U is aimed at both markets, the clue is even in the name.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby ricflair » 28 Jun 2011, 01:14

The HD consoles are still selling well, there's still a massive market for them. I assume it's this market Nintendo will want to attract, and also capitalise on the Wii's success and bring people across to the new console. How successful they will be at doing this, I don't know. They made a big point of saying they wanted to cater for both core and casual.

I don't think those people necessarily said 'no' directly to the HD consoles; more like a lot of them said 'yes' to the wii, if that makes sense. Nintendo are still in a much better financial position than Sony or MS (not that says anything for games we might be interested in). The Wii is also still selling, it may have dropped a lot, and Nintendo are seemingly putting it to bed with their release schedule, but it hasn't been massively outsold by the PS3 or 360 at all and in terms of software sales, well they're still selling a lot with bigger margins.

But they seem to have misjudged things a tad with the 3DS so we'll see. I don't know how it will turn out, but it seems the people that have strong opinions are nearly all the naysayers. But then gamers often tend to not be able to see past their own experiences and opinions and can't imagine that other people will see things differently and make a different decision.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby boskersrevenge » 28 Jun 2011, 09:20

I think the Wii U is going to extend this generation more than force MS and Sony's hand.

The biggest hurdle I can see for the Wii U is two fold - how they handle on-line and as that article suggests only have to provide something simple and functional. If you can get a game with minimum hassle, then bells and whistles are a bonus.

The other hurdle I am not confident Nintendo are going to leap and that's the controller itself.

I can see the Wii U being known for adventure and RPGs but not for the gaming staple, FPS. Now, I am not saying that devs will shirk the Wii U as it'll be capable but they're giving us nubs and also, the triggers are just buttons with no analogue control. Which also concerns me for racing games or games such as Saint's Row and GTA for the driving sections.

I can't visualise how they've get around it without making the thumbs convex and adding an analogue signal to the triggers.

They might seem like minor points but I think in a market where you're choosing which 3rd party game to buy it'll make enough of a difference to many people.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby Izo » 28 Jun 2011, 16:47

cult wrote:The wiiu is playing catch up with 3rd party support, processing power, graphics, dvd/blu-ray storage capacity, online, adoptees and choice.
The wii user base is casual and the wiiu is aimed at the core gamer, two different demographics, don’t expect those casuals who said no to the current HD generation to suddenly say yes to a Nintendo version of it.
The wiiu is a current generation console in a 5 year old market that offers little more than what is already available. Other than Nintendo exclusives it will share a common catalogue of future games and given a choice where none existed before Nintendo 1st party will suffer in sales, or is it everybody will buy everything?
In reality ‘core’ wii owning gamers would have bought an additional console in the last 5 years for the 3rd party support of MS and Sony, so when wiiu does arrive they will already have the facility for multiplatform without the need for a new console.
To say Microsoft and Sony are fighting a losing battle with exclusives is ridiculous, they have theirs and Nintendo has their own, in what way has anyone lost out to Nintendo?
I don’t believe consumers are drawn to MS or Sony because of 3rd party only; it’s in addition to those consoles exclusives. Some people only have one or the other machine and unlike wii users and an awful lot of them are progressive gamers who want to move with the times and go next gen. The wiiu just isn’t that, as for transition, you mean it’s neither here current gen or there next gen?
Expect gamecube lifetime sales not ps2 and expect to come last behind Apple



It's simple look at the best selling exclusives for each console they've lost out commercially to them, Nintendo has 3 that have sold 20m or more, 6 titles that have shifted 10m or more, about 10 titles that have broken 4m and a further 6 that have broke the million barrier as well as 1 misc title that have sold passed 60m as a stand alone non packed in game, Microsoft has 2 titles that have broken 10m, 3 that have broken 4m and a further 5 that have passed the millon barrier. Sony has none that have past 10m, 4 that have past the 4m mark and a further 8 past the 1 to 2m mark, if you look at the top 100 selling games for Wii first party games dominate the top 30, for the other two consoles third party games dominate the top 30. In fact first party titles for the top 50 for these two are scarce if their games were selling the consoles most of them would easily dominate the top 20 regardless of how many third party games are on the platform, most people in the PS3/360 userbase are mainly on these platforms for the third party games.

Sorry mate but it's no contest here first party wise Nintendo are an unmovable object as that is what has driven their console, with out the third party support advantage Sony and MS don't have many first party titles that have the commercial bang that Nintendo has garnered, most people have bought the Wii mainly for Nintendo's first party that same doesn't apply to the other two.

Wii U being 5 years late is the weakest argument against it to date, it uses tech based on IBM's i7 which is only a year old and makes it the most recent tech, it's not catching up it's overtaking it's a transition to a next gen whether you want to admit it or not, Wii U is not aimed at cores either it's aimed at the broad market in other words everyone, the same market the DS was. Don't think it's a shift in focus as it's not they're mainly pulling aboard third parties to not only fill the gaps between the release of their first party titles but sustain a chunk of the core market, they don't even need to grab all them just enough to give consistent success for third parties. Nintendo can sell consoles base on their first party games alone, but now they'll also share the pull of third party games which the 360 and PS3's successor will have to deal with and battle on a more even playing field unless you think Sony and MS will really let Nintendo sit pretty for years with unique stronger hardware as that is industrial suicide. Good luck with your GC sales prediction as even Pachter wouldn't bank on that prediction.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby cult » 29 Jun 2011, 12:55

The biggest selling car in America last year was by a Japanese manufacturer.
That fact does not mean it was true the year before or will be this year.
Your use of Nintendo sales figures is a moot point; it does not mean similar sales are guaranteed in the future.
I don’t doubt the popularity of Nintendo’s 1st party games I own some of them myself on the gamecube, I sold my wii due to its too similar game library and no 3rd party support.
When the wii launched the playstation 2 was the standard for multiplatform yet the much more powerful wii didn’t pick up the AAA games or the huge choice.
The developers had moved on to the next gen and dropped wii support in favour of the 360 and future architecture of the PS3.
Cut down versions of current games have appeared on the wii like Black Ops and Modern Warfare but they are a generation behind in graphics, online features and more importantly they lack sales.
I believe that’s the history of this generation that will predict the future.
Next generation consoles should scare the PC crowd running frostbite2, cryengine 3 and unreal natively.
The developers will then move on again leaving the wiiu behind.
The fanboys will make the wiiu a success financially for Nintendo because as you keep pointing out their 1st party sells consoles but a core gamer should keep their money.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby ricflair » 29 Jun 2011, 13:21

Well I think the point is that the 360 was already out when the Wii came out and the PS3 came out at the same time. If Nintendo get a march on the new xbox and PS, then they should be in a good position.

And that depends on what Sony and MS do next too. They've only just started to turn profit, are they going to want to bring out a new console about two years after they've actually started making decent money? At least one that's super powerful?

I look forward to rumours upon rumours about the new consoles from them, especially the usual s**t from Sony about how it will be uber powerful and destroy everything else out there, yet basically be as powerful as the competition.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby boskersrevenge » 29 Jun 2011, 14:10

I find it so hard to believe MS and Sony are in a position to think about a reveal and a launch right now but hey, no skin off my nose if they do but I do think it'll be bad for gaming.

The hike on development being a major issue and having the costs passed on to us, retailers making marginal loses on software as it sells slowly on release but better on sale and smaller devs just not having the resources to develop for them and eventually being swallowed up by bigger companies or just continually developing for the 360 and PS3 AND Wii U until the tool set and dev kits come down to their comfort level.

Currently...

MS have got a clear game plan about extending the social elements of the 360 and with even more content being added to it, why would they launch more powerful hardware when what the common man will see is an expensive xbox and a cheap xbox on store shelves? One being better than the other, by what margin I do not know but I can only see it as alienating the customer base they're after. Do they buy the cheap one which is old or pay more money than they wish, chances are they'd go for the more attractive option

Which will be God knows what - not the Wii U automatically without knowing what features the Wii U will have with regard to how it comes into play under the family telly.

Sony are in a similar position but their focus being different, ever-so-slightly.

They're both still growing the 360 and PS3 businesses, E3 taught me that.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby Izo » 29 Jun 2011, 19:02

cult wrote:The biggest selling car in America last year was by a Japanese manufacturer.
That fact does not mean it was true the year before or will be this year.
Your use of Nintendo sales figures is a moot point; it does not mean similar sales are guaranteed in the future.
I don’t doubt the popularity of Nintendo’s 1st party games I own some of them myself on the gamecube, I sold my wii due to its too similar game library and no 3rd party support.
When the wii launched the playstation 2 was the standard for multiplatform yet the much more powerful wii didn’t pick up the AAA games or the huge choice.
The developers had moved on to the next gen and dropped wii support in favour of the 360 and future architecture of the PS3.
Cut down versions of current games have appeared on the wii like Black Ops and Modern Warfare but they are a generation behind in graphics, online features and more importantly they lack sales.
I believe that’s the history of this generation that will predict the future.
Next generation consoles should scare the PC crowd running frostbite2, cryengine 3 and unreal natively.
The developers will then move on again leaving the wiiu behind.
The fanboys will make the wiiu a success financially for Nintendo because as you keep pointing out their 1st party sells consoles but a core gamer should keep their money.



Wrong again mate as first party sales for Nintendo have been consistent for generations meaning it's far from a moot point and now with casuals and new gamers on board who they cater to well those consistent sales will only continue to grow. The 360 was the standard for multiplatforms when Wii launched it launched a full year and a hlaf before the Wii and PS3, this began the transition and many devs thought all consoles would be at the same basic that the 360 had so dedicated themselves to it. The U launch's timing is very similar only this time it's the market leader with this timing.

Lmao no the console market will never scare the PC crowd when it comes to tech you know why? Here's an example you're speaking about running high engines natively for consoles that are years away (year away for Wii U) yet PCs are already running high powered engines now, in fact HD was on PCs back in the 90s before console gamers knew what it was. Go to Gametrailers and watch the DX11 trailer for Crysis 2, same engine as the console versions but completely outmatches them, on top of that console parts are made frome PC tech, by the time consoles are running these engines natively PCs at the time will have standard specs that will have no problem with such engines.

No a core gamer will go where ever he can get the games he or she likes whether it's Sony, MS or Nintendo, the sight of COD, GTA etc... is all they need they won't wait for specific consoles to buy it on. The PSN blackout is a testament to this with people selling PS3s to buy 360s so they can continue playing COD games online, the's no loyalty what so ever from them and they could care less what console they're playing as long as they get what they want it's also amusing how you constantly refer to people who will buy the Wii U as fanboys for no real concrete reason.
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Re: Nintendo WII U - SNES/Dreamcast Edition

Postby Izo » 29 Jun 2011, 19:11

boskersrevenge wrote:...



They're not really in a position to do that tbh but that all depends on how the next two years go, if U takes off at a good rate it doesn't even have to be Wii rate then they may be forced to make a move but no doubt right now they both have probably ramped up next gen R&D just to be prepared. It's an uncomfortable postition because Nintendo are market leader at the moment which is helping factor in them coming first this time, they're taking a bit of a calculated gamble as opposed to the wild one which was the Wii and the won't be another next gen console this time to punish any early mistakes.
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