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PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the PS4

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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby B_G_G » 13 Dec 2012, 23:30

only_777 wrote:
Utter fail for totally not understanding how a game console works. You'r a typical PC elitist, thinks he knows what he's talking about, but really understands nothing.

You have made the text book mistake and put a consoles hardware spec next to a gaming rig and thinks the console is not as powerful because the numbers are less, but totally forget about the software which is actually driving the hardware.
Ever wondered why a less powerful Mac can out perform a PC? Well because the software is written to a specific hardware set so the hardware is working to its best capability.
It's not code which is optimized for a general set of hardware items which all PC code has to be. As PC's come in all shapes and sizes, game engines like Unreal are very general in the way they are written and hardware is wasted on code that is not actually written with a certain GPU/CPU in mind.

Here is some actual written proof for you just to put an end to this stupid idiotic statement that PC elitists keep making.
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-26-assassins-creed-3-pc-system-requirements-chop-windows-xp-support

This is the actual MINIMUM spec for Assassins Creed 3 on PC:

Processor: 2.66 GHz Intel Core2 Duo E6700 or 3.00 GHz AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ or better recommended
RAM: 2 GB (4 GB recommended)
Video Card: 512 MB DirectX 9.0c-compliant with Shader Model 4.0 or higher (see supported list)*
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c-compliant (5.1 surround sound recommended)
DVD-ROM: Dual-layer drive
Hard Drive Space: 17 GB

Now AC3 running at minimum graphic settings does not look anywhere near as good as the PS3/360 version. But just look at what you need. It's a FAR higher than what the PS3 or 360 has, same as the CPU spec.


I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Apart from for some strange reason going off on one just because I have a PC.

You can't compare PC hardware specs with console hardware specs, so why are you trying to?

And please, find me a Mac that outperforms an identical spec PC at say, Portal 2.

You don't know what you're talking about so there's not a lot of point in trying to explain things to you, but the RAM figure comes down to pure maths.

Forgetting anything except the graphics for a second: If you want to perform a set number of calculations of a set size of instructions (1080p image times 60 times a second for example) you need a certain amount of space (RAM) to do it in.

The simpler the instructions, the less space you need, which is why PS3/X360 run at low resolutions and with reduced quality compared to the PC. Thats with the detail levels of current games. Do you think that games in the next 7 years are going to be simpler graphically than games this gen?

1080p 60 in the titles coming in the future is a dream unless the next gen of consoles are rocking at least entry level gaming PC levels of RAM. We're talking 1GB on the graphics card and 6 GB of system memory.

Anything less than that and 1080p 60 will only happen if the quality levels are sacrificed.

I'm confused as to why you felt I was insulting you or consoles, so I'm replying.. but I probably won't again because you're weird.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby leucocyte » 13 Dec 2012, 23:37

1Nightmare1 wrote:I like it so far with an exception of locking out used games and promoting ads during game. If MS avoids this problem, then PS 4 is going to be left behind. In this economy, with low budget, not many people are going to be happy paying full price for an average game that's been out for 6 months or more. Games are expensive as is, many people can't afford brand new games. If the next Xbox will continue have used games available, then I think PS 4 sales are going to be jeopardized.


"A used game 'lock out' isn't certain, but is what we're currently hearing from multiple sources, and tallies with Microsoft's plan for its next Xbox."

PSM3/Xbox World have the same editor - i imagine a lot of the rumours for both consoles come from the same sources. I think they'll either both do it or neither will. Mind you, I'm not exactly sure how lockouts could be enforced without an internet connection. not being able to play offline could be a bigger problem...

the days of expensive £40-£50 AAA titles are apparently going the way of the dodo, so you won't have to worry about affording expensive brand new games anyway. :wink:
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby TheLastDodo » 13 Dec 2012, 23:50

:x

None of that going the way of the dodo crap please.

Dinosaurs is permitted.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby leucocyte » 13 Dec 2012, 23:51

DoucheVader wrote:Actually I hear the PS4 Dev unit comes in 8GB and 16GB varieties. That doesn't mean the final unit will have that much memory. Often the Dev units have additional memory to run debuggers and such.

I honestly expect both systems to come in 8GB varieties.


i am expecting sony's hardware to be spec'd according to input from their first party dev studios particularly the ones with a great deal of technical expertise. half of naughty dog will be on a project for PS4 (whether the next uncharted - mostly likely - or something else), guerrilla are clearly working on KZ4 (and something else) - which from a tech point of view should be spectacular for consoles, polyphony probably making uber-carporn for GT6, media molecule on the next big play,create,share idea, a team at sony santa monica are working on next-gen, and so-on. some may just be tech-demos and proofs-of-concept, but i would expect them to be sharing feedback to the hardware division about how stuff is running. 1080p 60fps in 3D?? - "can't meet those expectations with 4gb - recommend 8gb - send upgraded devkits".
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby leucocyte » 13 Dec 2012, 23:52

TheLastDodo wrote::x

None of that going the way of the dodo crap please.

Dinosaurs is permitted.


i'm one of those! :P
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby Jensonjet » 14 Dec 2012, 00:00

I enjoy the right to buy used games as much as I do having the right to purchase everything else I care to buy secondhand. Take that away from me or make it an expensive option via online passes, etc has guaranteed I spend less with this industry. I already avoid games because of online passes and am spending less each year. In the past the secondhand game market had allowed me to take more risks purchasing new games, knowing that I had an option to exchange them, or try games I wasn't prepared to spend the full retail price on. Old games funded new games. That's all changed now!

As has been argued a million times before; no other industry feels it has the right to make profit twice over, or more, on its products when sold secondhand. Games are throwaway, cheap, dumb entertainment products that are worth very little to the average gamer. We all know this. It's why the price of games hasn't changed much over the years, and so many of us aren't willing to even pay the full retail price.

If the gaming industry is unable to sustain itself on its current profits then perhaps it needs to do what every other industry on the planet does; either increase the cost of its products to match production costs or reduce the costs of development.

Desperately trying to make a second profit on games amounts to nothing more than greed. If developers want a slice of the retail pie, then perhaps they need to look into running their own stores! Perhaps if the industry were capable of adapting it might have found a way to create competition and an alternative to the shops where gamers exchange, sell or buy secondhand games.

Or better yet, create games that people really, really love and want to keep. Rather than (let's be honest...) rip off gamers with overpriced map packs, etc, reward gamers for the success of titles and give them content that keeps their games fresh and gives people reason to hold on to them.

The real problem isn't the secondhand market itself it's the gaming industry and more specifically; the way it's managed!
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby shogunreaper » 14 Dec 2012, 00:01

So you're not going to even be able to play games if you don't have internet?

Yeah... Lets see how well that works out.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby DoucheVader » 14 Dec 2012, 00:58

Here is much better info with full citing (CVG shame on you for not citing your goddamn sources, sick of larger entities totally gobbling up smaller entities work and passing it off as their own).

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/12/13/psls-investigates-a-ps4-rumor-roundup-analysis/
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby Barca Azul » 14 Dec 2012, 00:59

leucocyte wrote:
Barca Azul wrote:As for the controller, ive never had issues, yes L2 and R2 needs real triggers for shooters, but thats my only gripe. b


i prefer the L1/R1 combo for shooters. aiming/shooting with L2/R2 just seems awkward to me (as does the LT/RT 360 config). really dislike the layout of where everything is on the 360 controller.. much prefer the dualshock design, though could do with being a bit wider. i have a keypad attached to mine, so it feels bulky enough, and the silver ones are heavier to start with.

i've seen 360-shaped third party controllers for PS3, but never the other way around. :?


Ive big hands and for me the dual shock is more comfortable in general. Im not a big shooter fan, but ive played games where the add on real triggers were a help. The non dual shock pad felt a bit too light to me too.

I also broke the d pad disc on the original xbox controller, probably too heavy handed playing PES.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby Barca Azul » 14 Dec 2012, 01:04

leucocyte wrote:
Barca Azul wrote:
Ive never had an issue, apart from when they closed it for a month of course. Ive only NAT 2 and 4mbps line. I know in the beginning some people had issues with certain routers/ISP's due to them restricting certain ports on the router, which meant you only had NAT 3, which is useless.


same here, i have NAT2 and 4-5mbps. i did have a problem with a netgear router (which i bought when my old router crapped out) - it worked fine with a lan cable, but just wouldn't to connect to PSN with wi-fi most of the time. solved it by buying another of my old router model - works perfectly.


Yes, netgear were one of the usual suspects along with Zyxel being another.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby DoucheVader » 14 Dec 2012, 01:07

Jensonjet wrote:I enjoy the right to buy used games as much as I do having the right to purchase everything else I care to buy secondhand. Take that away from me or make it an expensive option via online passes, etc has guaranteed I spend less with this industry. I already avoid games because of online passes and am spending less each year. In the past the secondhand game market had allowed me to take more risks purchasing new games, knowing that I had an option to exchange them, or try games I wasn't prepared to spend the full retail price on. Old games funded new games. That's all changed now!


You are completely oversimplifying this scenario (and quite frankly I am getting tired of explaining this to gamers who just act dumb about it).

Let's say you buy a 2005 Honda. For one the 2005 Honda will likely not have all the bells and whistles of a 2012 Honda, also people shopping for the 2012 Honda won't think the used 2005 Honda is a valid choice for them. The reason the value is lower on the 2005 Honda is because it has wear and tear.

Video games on the other hand don't have "wear and tear" unless the disc doesn't work. So at Gamestop every day developers are competing with THEMSELVES. Who makes the lion share of the cash? It would be Gamestop and not the talented developers who have created that experience for you. In my eyes a developer and publisher HAVE EVERY RIGHT to create a value difference between a new product and a used product. Otherwise the used game will have a better value and that is not fair to the developer especially when the game has been out only a matter of weeks. The first few weeks of game sales makes or breaks your efforts.

If you want developers to keep making games and not trimming the experiences you will either buy it new or pay for the online passes so the developers get some revenues out of your pocket (since you are playing the game).

The issue isn't you are buying used games, the issue is the used game doesn't have the same value degradation as almost every other used marketplace. GameStop is making millions on the backs of developers who are often given pink slips after their game ships because the revenues never reach projections due to Used and Piracy.

So if you aren't going to buy next generation because the developers want a little more control over their sales channel then the developers aren't missing out on a thing. The fact is you are blowing smoke and unless you haven't bought a game since 2010 you have used online passes they are pretty commonplace now.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby flash501 » 14 Dec 2012, 01:18

DoucheVader wrote:Here is much better info with full citing (CVG shame on you for not citing your goddamn sources, sick of larger entities totally gobbling up smaller entities work and passing it off as their own).

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/12/13/psls-investigates-a-ps4-rumor-roundup-analysis/


Is putting "PSM3 Investigate" in the headline not citing PSM3 as the source?
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby billysastard » 14 Dec 2012, 01:25

DoucheVader wrote:
You are completely oversimplifying this scenario (and quite frankly I am getting tired of explaining this to gamers who just act dumb about it).

Let's say you buy a 2005 Honda. For one the 2005 Honda will likely not have all the bells and whistles of a 2012 Honda, also people shopping for the 2012 Honda won't think the used 2005 Honda is a valid choice for them. The reason the value is lower on the 2005 Honda is because it has wear and tear.

Video games on the other hand don't have "wear and tear" unless the disc doesn't work. So at Gamestop every day developers are competing with THEMSELVES. Who makes the lion share of the cash? It would be Gamestop and not the talented developers who have created that experience for you. In my eyes a developer and publisher HAVE EVERY RIGHT to create a value difference between a new product and a used product. Otherwise the used game will have a better value and that is not fair to the developer especially when the game has been out only a matter of weeks. The first few weeks of game sales makes or breaks your efforts.

If you want developers to keep making games and not trimming the experiences you will either buy it new or pay for the online passes so the developers get some revenues out of your pocket (since you are playing the game).

The issue isn't you are buying used games, the issue is the used game doesn't have the same value degradation as almost every other used marketplace. GameStop is making millions on the backs of developers who are often given pink slips after their game ships because the revenues never reach projections due to Used and Piracy.

So if you aren't going to buy next generation because the developers want a little more control over their sales channel then the developers aren't missing out on a thing. The fact is you are blowing smoke and unless you haven't bought a game since 2010 you have used online passes they are pretty commonplace now.


so a new copy of mass effect 1 is worth as much as a new copy of mass effect 3 which in turn is worth as much as a new copy of mass effect trilogy? to me thats a perfect example of how like in your honda example the thing has been upgraded and therefore the older versions are worth less. if a game excites you or interests you then you buy it new and the publisher / dev gets his cut, if however you just think "meh" then why not wait until it has become devalued and pick it up preowned.

you also forget that many gamers are not little children or basement dwellers but fully fledged adults with families of their own and it is those people who these greedy scum with their anti consumer passes hurt most, why cant my children play the games that i've bought on their systems and accounts just like i can, its one of the reasons why i'll almost never buy any game with an anti consumer pass new but might buy it preowned later so we all get to play the same game and i'm not rewarding the greedy scum for punishing me for daring to have a family that plays games.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby Agent75 » 14 Dec 2012, 01:36

So may rumours about next gen consoles, which is usually the case. Got a feeling the PS4 will be more powerful than the Xbox 720, but there won't be much in it. To be honest, it doesn't bother me, most people won't be bothered, Nintendo won't be bothered and Microsoft won't be bothered, as history has proven that the most powerful console doesn't mean it's going to be top dog. But I'm 99% convinced that the Wii U will be knocked into third place power wise, which will result in certain games on the PC, Xbox 720 and PS4, won't be possible on the Wii U, which happened with the Wii. But in all fairness, the Wii just went on and on with p**s poor power, the Xbox 360 and PS3 couldn't catch it. Can't say I'm a fan of DLC, it's a joke. If games go digital, it'll be a big blow, as you can't beat having games on disc or cards. But to take the p**s big time, will digital games be cheaper? Nope. Looking at Xbox Live, digital games sell for the same price as games on disc, even costing more in some cases. Next gen games will top £60 easy, including digital games. There's enough numpties out there who'll pay £60 to download a game, then pay silly prices for the DLC, not forgetting complete and special editions and there's even DLC for them games. Too many consoles, £60 games, didgital only games, DLC and even more updates/fixes will cause a gaming crash. Will Apple ever release a console? Probably. As for the Vita, it's a great handheld, but games at up to £40 a pop, just puts most people off. Not many exclusives and cross format games, isn't good enough. Bring it down to £149 is reality. At that price, it'd give the 3DS XL a run for its money.
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Re: PSM3 investigates: The 15 game-changing features of the

Postby Dalaeck » 14 Dec 2012, 02:29

I see sony and microsoft as dying companies. I see nothing to be excited about in these products, they will likely be steamrolled by nintendo if this is all they have in mind. Ads in games? Really? That definitely is a game changer.
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